update: my awful coworker’s employees want me to help them

This post was written by Alison Green and published on Ask a Manager.

Remember the letter-writer whose awful coworker’s employees wanted her to help them? Here’s the update.

First, I decided to back down for a while. Soon after “the flop,” one of John’s better employees cut his losses, left a scathing exit interview, and took a job hundreds of miles away. An even more experienced employee — let’s call him Steve — stayed but started to spiral emotionally. He was obviously depressed and obsessed with the whole situation, and I feared he was going to do something drastic. I kept telling him to “hold on, things can still change” because I saw an opportunity coming up where he could join my team and simply not work for John anymore. (The two had been close friends before all this, so the experience was a deep betrayal for him.)

In the meantime, I convinced my boss to start having regular meetings with me. (Yep.) Even more difficult, I convinced her to start meeting with John and me together so we could all get on the same page. Once I had worked through my disappointment in my boss (months later), I finally asked, “How did that big discussion with John’s team go, anyway?” She explained that it went well, and that she had simply told everyone that John had only joined their project to learn from them and help them – not in capacity as their boss or with the authority to make changes. (Not exactly the story I was told!)

I said, “Oh, wow… So do you think things got better after that?”

She gave an emphatic “Yes, I think so, I haven’t heard of any issues since.” After I just stared for a moment, she asked, “…Why, are you hearing something different? Were there still issues?”

She is an overall calm, cool, and collected person, but when I told her the version of the story I heard, she was visibly shocked and upset. She could not believe they thought they had been scolded and essentially told to shut up. “I guess now they think they can’t look to me for help anymore, right?” I told her yes, she pretty much looks like a lost cause at this point. She started asking how best to correct the issue, and I tried to give an answer, but all I could think was, “What in the world happened in that meeting?”

Some good things have happened since then — I got a promotion, and I really was able to have Steve moved over to work for me, which was a big relief for both of us. However, it’s still pretty hard on him. He seems to watch and report everything John does and I sometimes have to remind him, “You’re doing great work, he has no control over you anymore, you won’t get in trouble.” He also warned me that John is afraid of me and is trying to undermine me, to which I replied, “Good, let him.”

Meanwhile, John is stuck in his same patterns. He moved on to “help” another team, this time in a different department. When John received poor performance feedback from their team lead, John scolded the guy and told him it was actually his fault John wasn’t meeting their standards. John then — again — complained to our boss, who, yes, defended John to that guy’s director! It was almost a historic moment, watching John pit our department against another when usually he at least keeps it internal.

Magically, that department no longer required John’s help after that, yet they now needed both Steve and me on board. As it turns out, they are pretty nice guys and easy to work with. Also, that team lead whom John scolded just got promoted.

One new development before I go: After a year of hard-core ignoring each other outside of our new meetings, John and I have recently learned to collaborate well on some common goals. He even asked me for advice after he saw me handle a difficult situation with an employee. However, in our last meeting, our boss let me in on an issue she and John face: more of his employees have utterly lost trust in management, and no matter what they do, it only gets worse. John openly agreed, adding that his messages to his employees go ignored and he gets accused of micromanaging at every turn. So now, our boss wants “us” to brainstorm ways to repair John’s trust problem. Why I should be brought into this, I am not sure — maybe she thinks it will be a bonding experience, or she is just out of ideas.

So far, staying far away from his employees’ problems has worked better for me, but I wonder if letting nature run its course is the right thing to do. They both seem open to my suggestions this time around, and I do have some ideas that may help de-escalate… But given their track records, I am not comfortable helping John with his interpersonal issues other than referring him to HR.

Thank you for all your help over the years!