interns stole alcohol at a work retreat, vacationing with a friend from work, and more

This post was written by Alison Green and published on Ask a Manager.

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Interns stole alcohol at a work retreat

I recently started a new role, and last week we had a three-day annual retreat with the whole organization (about 30 people). It was a great experience overall, but it ended on a sour note: on our last evening, after a team dinner, two interns and one junior employee (who is still in their probation period) got very drunk, broke back into the restaurant where we had eaten after it closed, and stole an expensive bottle of alcohol.

None of us were aware of this until the next morning at breakfast, when the owners of the event space came into the restaurant, identified the three thieves through security camera footage, and demanded that they pay the full price of the bottle — $250. The interns and the junior employee seemed suitably embarrassed and went back to their rooms to gather up the money.

I was seated with a group of other managers and the CEO, and their conclusion seemed to be, “Well that was embarrassing, but if they pay for the bottle that’s the end of the story.” Personally, I thought that it should have been taken much more seriously — it seemed like a major lapse in judgement, and had it been my decision to make, I would have fired all three. I am a manager, but none of the three involved report to me directly, so it’s out of my hands. Still, should they have faced consequences from our organization as well, or was the fact that they were called out publicly and had to pay for the bottle enough?

For what it’s worth, there was wine served at the final team dinner, but it was far from a debaucherous free-for-all; there were speeches from the CEO and VP, a quiz about our organization’s history, that kind of thing — convivial, but no one other than the interns was getting drunk.

Yeah, I’m with you. You don’t commit a B&E during a work retreat!

It’s easy to leap to “I’d have fired them,” and that was my initial response. But when I reality-tested that by asking myself, “Is that really what I’d do in that situation or is it just the easy answer when it’s a hypothetical rather than reality?” and “What if this were an otherwise excellent employee with a great track record?” There are some situations where I could imagine not immediately firing the people involved and instead having an extremely serious conversation along the lines of, “This is unacceptable behavior to associate us with and a lapse in judgment that has broken our trust, and the consequences of that are….” (Even then though, are you ever going to be able to comfortably send that person on a business trip or out with clients? So it also depends on what their job is. And you’d need a lot of history of strong judgment and good work before this to even bother.) But two interns and a junior employee still in their probation period — i.e., people without a track record to counter-balance this incident? I’d be a lot less inclined.

What’s interesting to me about this isn’t that they weren’t fired, but that the organization’s response seems so mild in general. Like it wasn’t even a big deal as long as they paid for the bottle? That part — the lack of any serious concern — is pretty weird.

(Note: Much of my response is because they broke into the restaurant. That’s a big deal! If it was more like they swiped a bottle that was sitting in plain view somewhere, it still wouldn’t be okay, but I’d be less shocked by the lower-key response.)

2. I hate my workplace, but I don’t want to accept an alternate offer (I think)

I work at a mid-sized nonprofit that, to put it bluntly, is a mess. It’s an unhealthy work environment, everyone is charging towards being burnt out at an accelerated rate, we’re all overwhelmed, communication is a nightmare, we’re building the plane as we’re flying; you name a problem, and we probably have it in spades. But, I find the work I do enjoyable and fulfilling, like a handful of my coworkers, and have good enough work-life boundaries that my work problems rarely bleed enough into my free time to be a problem.

I spend probably an equal number of days excited to go to work in the morning as I do considering slashing my tires so I can get out of going in.

I recently received an offer from a sister organization to transfer to their branch. I have worked at this branch before at a part-time capacity with a lower title than I have now, so I know a bit about the environment and what would likely be expected of me. To be clear, since this is a sister organization, my status, benefits, pay, or title will not change at all. The only things that would change would be my workplace, work environment, and extra duties as assigned.

They’ve given me time to think about it, and I’m flabbergasted that as of right now, I don’t want to leave my current job.

When I think about the differences between the two, my current job, for its many, many flaws, feels more exciting and full of opportunities, including opportunities to make things better. The offer likely would provide a more healthy and stable day to day environment, less extra work, and somehow, that feels more boring to me. And yet, logically I know I would be stupid to stay.

Have I somehow Stockholm Syndromed myself into wanting to stay at a job that makes me miserable at least half the time? Am I being delusional about what the potential benefits of staying versus leaving?

Any chance it’s not so much that you want to stay where you are, but that you’re not excited about this specific other job? Is it possible you’d be more enthused about leaving for a different job altogether? Maybe you shouldn’t be comparing Current Job vs. Sister Job, but rather Current Job vs. something else entirely and should job hunt more broadly.

Or, it’s possible that you’re nervous about leaving something that’s comfortable. People often feel anxious about leaving bad jobs — because you like your coworkers, or you know how to get things done there, or everyone respects you, and on and on. It can be hard to leave that situation for something unknown, even if you hate it some of the time.

Or who knows, maybe you like the chaos. Some people do! In that case the solution might be to reframe the frustrating parts in your mind so you see them more clearly as trade-offs you’re intentionally choosing and are okay with. That can take some mental gymnastics, but if you can get that kind of clarity on it, it can make the difficult parts more bearable.

I don’t know which of these it is for you, but those are the questions I’d be gnawing on in your shoes.

Related:
feeling anxious about leaving my bad job for a better one

3. Is it OK to vacation with a friend from work?

I recently took a promotion, which meant I moved to a different state/work facility for my job. I now oversee a handful of associates as an assistant manager.

I have been good friends with one of my coworkers, “Brad,” at this site/department for a few years now. We started chatting on a business trip, and we’ve been friends ever since. Our friendship has always been strictly platonic, and this hasn’t changed since I’ve moved to the area.

Since the move, Brad and I have gotten into the habit of hanging out one or two times a week, including him introducing me to some of his non-work friends. We’ve grabbed dinner and watched movies, met up for drinks, or even just hung out at my apartment pool. It’s been a good transition so far, because I’m new to the area and didn’t know anyone else before I moved.

Brad invited me to go to his family’s vacation house in Florida for a few days. We both have time off work, and I think it would be an awesome couple days hanging out by the pool in Florida. We would each have our own bedroom/bathroom, but it would just be the two of us. My question is, is this crossing the line into “ick”?

Both of us have the same manager at work, and we work together in the same department/office. We’re both the same hierarchical level due to my recent promotion, but I am a newer manager and there is lots of room to move up in the future. He mainly does project work as a “technical expert” and does not manage people. Neither of us are going to mention the Florida trip at work or to mutual friends/coworkers, but does this cross the line? I can’t shake the feeling that this would be a really bad idea professionally, even though we’ve been friends for a few years before we started working directly together in the same department/site.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with taking a trip with a coworker who you’re friends with outside of work.

If you think you might ever be promoted to a position where you’re managing Brad, I wouldn’t go because that could really complicate things. But otherwise, it doesn’t have to be particularly line-crossing.

However, can you dig in deeper to where your discomfort is coming from? Do you feel weird because he’s a coworker, or because he’s a male coworker? (Obviously you’d want to feel confident that Brad also sees this as purely platonic and you won’t end up spending a few awkward days trapped together after he makes a move on you by the pool, but it sounds like you do.) Is it because it would intensify the friendship to a level you’re not sure you want? Does it feel like it’s blending worlds (work vs friends) too much? Would you just feel weird if people at work knew about it, and wouldn’t want anyone to find out?

“It just feels like crossing a line that I’m not comfortable with” is a perfectly good reason not to go, as is “I can’t shake the feeling that it would harm me professionally in this particular workplace.” So are any of the reasons in my previous paragraph. But if it’s just a worry that it’s inherently inappropriate to travel with a work friend, I don’t think it is.

(Full disclosure, I once went to Vegas with a male friend from work and it was awesome.)

4. Can a church require employees’ spouses to tithe?

I work for a church in Illinois that requires employees to tithe 10% of their income. However, this church also requires tithing based on household income, including my wife’s income, even though she is not employed by the church. They estimate spouses’ incomes and track our giving monthly. If we don’t meet the required amount, they can fire me or withhold yearly raises. Can they legally require my wife to tithe?

They sure can. But I’d love to know how they’re “estimating” your wife’s income.

5. When can I call someone’s cell versus a main number?

If you do not have a previously established relationship with a business contact, and they list their mobile number alongside the “direct” or “main” business line in their email signature, which is it best to start with if you have to call them (with no previous arrangement in place)?

Pandemic times shifted norms considerably regarding the role of personal cell phones and the workplace, and I’m unsure where things have landed. Sometimes the person answering the office phone thinks it’s weird that I’m calling and it seems like my message will never reach my contact, but then sometimes the contact is blindsided if I try their cell. I’m also wary of accidentally calling their cell on a day off or if there’s a time difference I’m not cognizant of. That’s never good. What’s the general consensus these days?

If they list a cell and a “direct” or “main” number, start with the direct/main number. If the person who answers there doesn’t instill you with confidence that your message will reach the person, say something like, “I do have her cell — should I try her there instead?”

If you have their email address and the query isn’t time-sensitive, you can also just start with an email, even if it’s just to ask to set up a time for a call. There are plenty of industries where an unscheduled phone call is still the norm, but lots of contexts where emailing first works well too and makes all this a non-issue.

And of course, once you’ve established some initial contact with the person, you can always ask which number they prefer you use in the future.